Miracles

[Echo 746]

Many of you probably saw the Origins topic I made, which lead to the discussion of theology, and eventually lead to a little talk about miracles. So I'm curious of what people think here about miracles. Do you guys think something supernatural causes hearings? That they don't exist? Share your thoughts below and check out this article with video:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ohio-man-declared-dead-back-life/story?id=20027401 

I guess a lot of people believe that millraces happened a lot in the past, but do you think they still happen today?

[David 563]

"I'm calling it a miracle because I've never seen anything like it," Nazir said.

 

...all I need to see

[Shawnic 2,977]

I do believe in miracles. Jesus performed a lot of them and the Bible has accounted for them. 

 

All sorts of miracles take place including, healing of the sick and dead, conversions of people, apparitions, supernatural occurrences etc.

[Rohan 364]

I kinda believe in them, not fully though.

Edited May 20, 2016 by Rohan

[---- 213]

No I dont. Theres no proof they exist. 

[Kanad 351]

As in the Biblical ones? No.

[Emfoofoo 1,389]

not really.

[Archie 1,560]

22 hours ago, FOX545 said:

I guess a lot of people believe that millraces happened a lot in the past, but do you think they still happen today?

MILLRACES

Also, what Kanad said.

[Shawnic 2,977]

14 hours ago, Kanad said:

As in the Biblical ones? No.

What do you mean by Biblical miracles? What's the difference between Biblical miracles and other miracles? If you mean the miracles recorded in the Bible, there is no real difference from those and any other because those miracles are just "documented". What sort of miracles do you believe in?

18 hours ago, LegoJames said:

No I dont. Theres no proof they exist. 

You can't prove anything. I presume you mean evidence. There is evidence. The Bible. If you don't believe the Bible, there's evidence of people being raised from the dead every other day. 

[Jade Maveric 26]

Well, I do believe in a creator. And logic would have it that since this creator created the laws of physics. He/She/It doesn't necessarily have to follow those laws, and would have control over them. So if said creator decides to intervene, there's no objection.

So yes, I do believe in miracles. @Kanad including the biblical ones.

[Kanad 351]

28 minutes ago, Master Flap said:

What do you mean by Biblical miracles? What's the difference between Biblical miracles and other miracles? If you mean the miracles recorded in the Bible, there is no real difference from those and any other because those miracles are just "documented". What sort of miracles do you believe in?

You can't prove anything. I presume you mean evidence. There is evidence. The Bible. If you don't believe the Bible, there's evidence of people being raised from the dead every other day. 

I apologize if I offended you. Allow me to elaborate my opinion.

I do not believe that fatal diseases can be cured by the touch of the divine. Ordinary or non-threatening diseases can be, the Placebo Effect is at work there. Neither do I believe that 5000 people can be fed with a food worth only one man. I don't believe in most of the "documented" miracles either.

The types of miracles I believe in is highly improbable things happening. Like a man surviving after being hit by a speeding train.

I believe in whatever my mind finds reasonable, not necessarily rational.

[Shawnic 2,977]

Just now, Kanad said:

I apologize if I offended you. Allow me to elaborate my opinion.

I do not believe that fatal diseases can be cured by the touch of the divine. Ordinary or non-threatening diseases can be, the Placebo Effect is at work there. Neither do I believe that 5000 people can be fed with a food worth only one man. I don't believe in most of the "documented" miracles either.

The types of miracles I believe in is highly improbable things happening. Like a man surviving after being hit by a speeding train.

I believe in whatever my mind finds reasonable, not necessarily rational.

So you aren't referring to miracles in the "supernatural" sense, just things that are scientifically possible but unlikely? 

[Jade Maveric 26]

2 minutes ago, Kanad said:

I do not believe that fatal diseases can be cured by the touch of the divine. Ordinary or non-threatening diseases can be, the Placebo Effect is at work there. Neither do I believe that 5000 people can be fed with a food worth only one man. I don't believe in most of the "documented" miracles either.

The types of miracles I believe in is highly improbable things happening. Like a man surviving after being hit by a speeding train.

I believe in whatever my mind finds reasonable, not necessarily rational.

You do realise that the 'divine' if they do exist should be able to do anything? Assuming it's the divine I said in my post. As for not believing in documented miracles. That's fair, so long as you have the backing of the fact that you have examined them. If not, then you probably should examine them, or stay at the stage of believing. That goes the other way around to. Should you believe in something, you're belief/disbelief  isn't valid in an argument unless you realise the facts behind that argument.

4 minutes ago, Master Flap said:

So you aren't referring to miracles in the "supernatural" sense, just things that are scientifically possible but unlikely? 

Go down to the quantum scale. :wink Anything's possible.

[Kanad 351]

22 minutes ago, Jade Maveric said:

Well, I do believe in a creator. And logic would have it that since this creator created the laws of physics. He/She/It doesn't necessarily have to follow those laws, and would have control over them. So if said creator decides to intervene, there's no objection.

So yes, I do believe in miracles. @Kanad including the biblical ones.

 

1 minute ago, Jade Maveric said:

You do realise that the 'divine' if they do exist should be able to do anything? Assuming it's the divine I said in my post. As for not believing in documented miracles. That's fair, so long as you have the backing of the fact that you have examined them. If not, then you probably should examine them, or stay at the stage of believing. That goes the other way around to. Should you believe in something, you're belief/disbelief  isn't valid in an argument unless you realise the facts behind that argument.

God guides, He does not intervene.

I believe my opinions are projecting me as an atheist or 'non-believer'. Let me clarify, my concept of God is based more on the Upanishads and Vedas than anything else, and that opinion is still evolving. I don't have a fixed ideology yet. I am too young for that.

I don't mean to offend those who believe, but I strongly adhere against the Christian depiction of God as a 'person'. Someone with favorites [humanity] and likes and dislikes.

2 minutes ago, Master Flap said:

So you aren't referring to miracles in the "supernatural" sense, just things that are scientifically possible but unlikely? 

Yes. I find "supernatural" an impractical word. As everything that can happen, happens under the law of nature.

[Shawnic 2,977]

1 minute ago, Jade Maveric said:

You do realise that the 'divine' if they do exist should be able to do anything? Assuming it's the divine I said in my post. As for not believing in documented miracles. That's fair, so long as you have the backing of the fact that you have examined them. If not, then you probably should examine them, or stay at the stage of believing. That goes the other way around to. Should you believe in something, you're belief/disbelief  isn't valid in an argument unless you realise the facts behind that argument.

Go down to the quantum scale. :wink Anything's possible.

But then, who's to say that our science is correct at all. Science is the accumulation of human effort and knowing humans, we could be very wrong. 

[Jade Maveric 26]

Who is to say we're not.

[Shawnic 2,977]

1 minute ago, Kanad said:

 

God guides, He does not intervene.

I believe my opinions are projecting me as an atheist or 'non-believer'. Let me clarify, my concept of God is based more on the Upanishads and Vedas than anything else, and that opinion is still evolving. I don't have a fixed ideology yet. I am too young for that.

I don't mean to offend those who believe, but I strongly adhere against the Christian depiction of God as a 'person'. Someone with favorites [humanity] and likes and dislikes.

Yes. I find "supernatural" an impractical word. As everything that can happen, happens under the law of nature.

What if nature has no law? Think quantum. 

Also, Christians don't believe in God as a person. God is three persons but one entity.  But ignoring that, we don't believe God has preferences. Actually it's kinda complex to understand what God is and usually, one can't even imagine bothering about that.  

But we don't view God as a person. We view persons as creations in the image of God. 

2 minutes ago, Jade Maveric said:

Who is to say we're not.

I'm just suggesting that rationalists boast that science is so logical. But the whole of science is based on some fatal logical fallacies: 

 

[Kanad 351]

14 minutes ago, Master Flap said:

But then, who's to say that our science is correct at all. Science is the accumulation of human effort and knowing humans, we could be very wrong. 

We could be, but we can only speculate about it. There's nothing we can do but wonder. For all we know we could be wrong and Obama might actually be a lizard alien and Beyonce might be a member of the Illuminati.

12 minutes ago, Master Flap said:

But we don't view God as a person. We view persons as creations in the image of God. 

That, I agree with. Humans are similar and closer to God because we are conscious and we can create.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Kanad

[Shawnic 2,977]

Just now, Kanad said:

We could be, but we can only speculate about it. There's nothing we can do but wonder. For all we know we could be wrong and Obama might actually be a lizard alien and Beyonce might be a member of the Illumaniti.

That, I agree with. Humans are similar and closer to God because we are conscious and we can create.

But Beyonce really does belong to the Illuminati. I saw her at one of our meetings. But you're wrong about Obama. He's actually Darth Sidious. 

[Jade Maveric 26]

1 minute ago, Kanad said:

We could be, but we can only speculate about it. There's nothing we can do but wonder. For all we know we could be wrong and Obama might actually be a lizard alien and Beyonce might be a member of the Illumaniti.

I think you'd be interested in 'The spectrum of theistic probability' by Richard Dawkins

[Kanad 351]

1 minute ago, Jade Maveric said:

I think you'd be interested in 'The spectrum of theistic probability' by Richard Dawkins

Okay, I'll look it up sometime.

I think we can easily conclude the "Miracles" debate by using Newton's flaming laser sword. Who dares to counteract Newton's flaming laser sword?

[Shawnic 2,977]

3 minutes ago, Kanad said:

Okay, I'll look it up sometime.

I think we can easily conclude the "Miracles" debate by using Newton's flaming laser sword. Who dares to counteract Newton's flaming laser sword?

Occam's Razor, eh? You're right, we can. Religion isn't logical and most of us don't claim it to be. But it could be a logical choice. Miracles are a matter of faith. Ultimately, it is up to us to believe or not to believe. But I personally find it wiser to believe. 

[Kanad 351]

Just now, Master Flap said:

Occam's Razor, eh? You're right, we can. Religion isn't logical and most of us don't claim it to be. But it could be a logical choice. Miracles are a matter of faith. Ultimately, it is up to us to believe or not to believe. But I personally find it wiser to believe. 

"Religion provides an anchor to the ship of thought, so that it does not venture into the sea of nihilism" -Kanad

[Shawnic 2,977]

Just now, Kanad said:

"Religion provides an anchor to the ship of thought, so that it does not venture into the sea of nihilism" -Kanad

What's scary is science is drifting into nihilism. Do you know how modern cosmology is trying to explain the everything from nothing paradox? Scary. 

[Kanad 351]

1 minute ago, Master Flap said:

What's scary is science is drifting into nihilism. Do you know how modern cosmology is trying to explain the everything from nothing paradox? Scary. 

Okay, more things for me to look up  I'll get back to you later. I love arguing with you, Flap.

Edited May 21, 2016 by Kanad